Locating PVC Water Lines

I am thinking about investing in some locating equipment to map out the PVC lines in my parks. The obvious goal is to find and repair leaks but the leak detection companies can't do much without knowing the location of the lines. There are many choices of equipment in USA Bluebook (by the way I recommend this catalog especially for those park owners with private water and sewer systems). Prices and features vary quite a bit so would welcome any comments or suggestions or experience on this topic. I bought a cheap ($400) unit a few years ago to locate some metal gas piping and it was a waste of money. Here is what I found so far:

1. Aquatrac 50 & 100 - specifically for locating pressurized non metallic pipe. Price approx $3500. The idea is that the transmitter creates a seismic pressure wave (sort of like tapping on the pipe or creating a water hammer) and you walk along with the receiver to detect the signal. Advantages: You don't have to shut off the water or do any special prep. Also you do not have to buy any tracer rodder cable (up to $1000). Disadvantages: I have heard from at least one person that it does not work very well. I would not want to pay that much and be frustrated with the results.

2. Ground Penetrating Radar - just as the name implies. Mostly used for larger pipes so not very usefu for water lines - and also very expensive - around $27K. Very cool technology though (especially if you are an archaeologist).

3. Traditional locators that use an electronic frequency. Many brands and prices to choose from ($1000 up to $4000). For plastic pipe you would have to put a small sonde (transmitter beacon) inside the pipe and push it along with a cable then walk along and detect the signal. Advantages - strong reliable signal (I think), can do other types of locating if needed. Disadvantages: Shutting off the water, creating access to the pipe (meaning digging and cutting pipe) in multiple locations, beacon may not fit in smaller pipe sizes, additional cost for the beacon ($350) and the rodder cable ($1000).

You might ask - why not just hire a locating company? That would be an option but I'm guessing that for the price of paying a contractor to do one park you could buy all the equipment and do it on more parks or only do sections at a time at your convenience. Also, this equipment is easily transported so even if your parks are in different locations you could still do them all. If one of us park owners became skilled at this we could go around and do other parks for a nominal fee or maybe share some equipment. Your comments are welcome.

Bret

If you have a significant leak, it won't be too hard to figure our where it is - trust me on that. Have you ever seen a water distribution line leaking before?

How big is the park and how big are your mains? Do you have stop boxes at the valve? Do you have meters? There might be alot better investments to make, depending on the overall situation.

I have experience with GPR and Schonstedt meters. Mixed results depending on what you are trying to accomplish and your site-specific situation - fill, metal, pavement, interference, etc..

Might try to get the salesman to demo the Aquatrac and see for yourself. Or try to rent one first.

Once you get everything located, bury a tracer wire so it is easy to find later. Tracer wire should always be used with PVC, and I am only a little surprised that it was not installed in this case....was it?

Dave VerSluis
www.sierraconsultants.net
(616) 560-1790

Have you considered hiring a company to do the work? They have some good equipment that would be to expensive for you to purchase for a one time use. I looked into hiring someone. The prices run a wide range. But there are some guys, 1-2 man shops that were pretty reasonable.

I am having problems with leaks at my park and it can be very difficult to locate leaks when you have naturally occurring springs in the same area. My solution? I'm hiring a douser next month to come in and locate just the leaks. I have no idea if it will work but I'm starting with the cheapest method first.

Rolf
Wheat Hill

with municipal water and sewer prices the way they are, there is no such thing as an insignificant leak. The only difference is if you are throwing pennies or dimes out the window.

Dave Ver Sluis is right tho. I think you have to look at what your best investments are, and I have always thought that in these instances, I'd rather rent a piece of equipment or hire someone than own a piece of equipment that sits unused most of the time.


I'm getting ready to hook into city water and abandon my well. For liability, resale and tenants quality of life reasons, I have been looking forward to doing this for years. There are now some programs out there that should finally make it doable. I'll be making a big investment into submetering my lots, but by reading their usage and subtracting it from master metering, I will be able for the first time to really see if the small leaks are costing me.

Big leaks, as someone said are pretty easy to find....you'll have places that are alway damp or have water standing. Take advantage whenever you have a stretch of dry weather to take a walk around and look for green patches among the brown..that grass is getting watered somehow!


If I had it to do all over again, I would really question the standard location of shut offs at the bottom of crocks under the homes....every park I've ever owned has been set up this way, and there is nothing worse than crawling under a flooded home in February and jamming your arm through freezing water to shut off a valve when a heat tape freezes....I think if there is any way to isolate individual lot for shut off and sewer clean outs, that's where to spend the money.

David - I have 2 parks that need work on this issue. One has 78 pads, 2 inch mains, and is submetered so I know I am losing about 10,000 gal per day or about $1000 per month. There are shutoffs just before each meter and the soil is mostly clay. The other park is private well and treatment plant with 1 1/2" lines so not critical yet but is pumping out 3 times the normal household use so lots of wear and tear and power consumption on the water plant.

Andy - what sort of wide range of prices did you get on your bids? I would need someone near Tulsa OK and Columbus, OH I have not yet found anyone to do a bid on this. I just figured by the time they did 2 parks with 75 - 100 pads each I could buy the equipment and then of course use it whenever I needed.

I talked to the Goldak rep and he thinks the Model 5600 with a small line beacon transmitter would work for me for around $1500 (without the fish tape cable)

Bret

10,000 gallons/day is a pretty big leak, you should be able to easily see m/l where it is, especially w heavier clay soils. Thats about 7 gallons/minute, you probably have an empty lot with the lateral not shut off leaking below grade. If you can't see it it may be finding it's way to a drain tile or to the septic system if you have one. Also a bad check valve can cause this.

You should be able to find out if you have a smaller leak by using pressure as an indicator. Sometimes you can valve off portions to isolate it somewhat.

$1500 does not sound too bad for the Goldak unit as long as it works well - and you just want to own one. But i would guess you can get it done for less than that.

Have you tried logic and elbow grease? You can often figure out quite alot by doing some hand-digging - not easy in clay I know, but cheap and lotsa fun ;)

The the top end was about $1200 for a day. The self employed guys were $500. The attach at one end of the street and are good for up to 1000 ft before they have to relocate. Locating and marking a single line in a 700 foot section of park road he figured than half a day. This is not as difficult a service to contact as you might think. Contractors and builders use it regularly. Get online, make some calls, get some costs. Digsafe and Call before you dig may have a member list. Avoid companies that work mostly for public utilities. They will be the most expensive. I was replacing meter pits and putting in curbshut offs. My contractor said he could dig under the trailer and get a direction on the line with a couple of scoops, mini backhoe and follow it back as needed. That is what we did. After awhile a pattern became evident and it got easier.